Ok so here is the bill for your beloved healthcare plan.

bobert, please reply soon while I'm in the mood to continue this debate :<

Fair play I admit. In that case, I'm interested in hearing your idea of what a functional socialist state would be. My thought on socialism(hearing it from Matthew) you can only tax people so much until you jeopardize ones standard of living.

I also like the idea of Freedom. So I have a question for you while you tell me your ideal form of socialism. Does socialism endanger freedom?

Matthew once told me that the problem was that people have too much freedom and I did not like the sound of that. Though, I am willing to be open minded and hear your plans for socialism.

Like I said, it's definitely subjective to the person who holds the ideal.

Personally, socialism means for me a free country that aids its citizens reasonably (I'd like to note that welfare definitely does not qualify for this. I'm talking about having to go through a process and prove why you need help with money, not this bullshit where it's like "HEY GUISE, SEND ME FREE CHECKS KK?") and has a minimalist government. The citizens decide things like state policies (and the citizens only), which are presented to said minimalist government to possibly make it a federal law.

Basically it's what we have now (but with less government control), except the welfare system isn't full of faggotry.

needs moar explanation

Currently, we have a little group of faggots (read: electoral college) who pick the president. Under a government that I support/propose, the popular vote (read: citizens) would pick the president. That would mean that in 2000, Gore would've won. Not Bush.

Currently, we have a system known as welfare. Welfare is the biggest pile of abused shit I've ever seen if my life. It's free money for lazy people (read: niggers/spics/white trash/etc.) that don't want to work. Under a government that I support/propose, in order to get "free money", you have to go through a process and prove why you need the money (for example, you've been applying for a job at tons of places and no one will hire you). You also need to be an American citizen and have graduated high school, because all these faggots that just drop out and take our money need to get the fuck out of America.

Currently, our government (in this case, read: Supreme Court) sets precedents for cases in law in order to minimize the amounts of cases that the Supreme Court has to review. I think that it's complete bullshit and that each case should be reviewed independently because there are specific circumstances to each case. I don't exactly know how to pull off this specific reform, but 'if there's a will, there's a way,' so I'm sure I could think of something eventually.

If you can give me specific topics, I'll gladly elaborate on how they need to be reformed and how they would be reformed under a government I support/propose.

When it comes to government reform I can agree with you. Back when I was actually getting into politics I was looking into the 2000 Presidential campaign and was wondering why the electoral vote overrides the popular vote. Most conservatives would probably decide to debate you with this but I have actually been very critical of the Bush administration.

I am actually opposed to welfare so I agree, what we have today is a load of bull. I believe welfare expands the gap between the lower and middle class by destroying the lower classes incentive to work. You can tell by the people who actually deny pay raises in order to keep receiving money from the government. I do support welfare reform. Your solution would be a start. Though, I have been looking into the idea of a negative income tax. It is supported by many economists and could eliminate the need for welfare, food stamps, and maybe even social security. I cannot tell you my position on the negative income tax for I have not looked into it completely.

I've never said the United States was some ideal nation. It has the potential to be, but right now we are in deep shit on the status quo.

Negative income tax sounds like a great idea on paper, but it's not really possible to see how great it'll work until it's put into effect. However, this could possibly just become another form of welfare and be a waste of time.

And then the Treaty of Spirit-Project politics were form.

Interesting summary/conclusion, Brian.